Jocko Conlan interview
Date1987 July 24
DescriptionTwo audio cassettes featuring an interview with Jocko Conlan conducted by Rod Roberts on the behalf of the National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum on July 24, 1987 in Cooperstown, New York.
Object numberHF-1994-0001-006
Interviewer
Roberts, Rod
Interviewee
Conlan, Jocko, 1899-1989
Subject
Conlan, Jocko, 1899-1989
Classificationsaudio/visual materials
Library Call NumberCTA 815
Library Call NumberCTA 816
Collection NumberBA RMA 001 Rod Roberts oral history collection
Dimensions2 audio cassettes
TrannscriptionCassette 1 content includes: Side One -- Track 1 - On being born in Chicago, IL, Dec. 6, 1899; near Southside White Sox Park, worked as a mascot for the White Sox in 1916; mixed Irish, German and Italian neighborhood; both parents were Irish; mother's maiden name was Mary Ann Clayton, born in Indiana; went to school through eighth grade at All Saints Parochial School, was captain of the baseball team and won the championship; taught by nuns and priests (00:00:00 to 00:03:10) Track 2 - Had a paper route; joined the Navy in 1917 to fight in World War I, serving at Great Lakes Naval Base and boxed, fought in the featherweight championship, to a draw; other boxers there included Richie Mitchell, referee Lt. Col. Jack Kennedy who worked with Dempsey; every Wednesday afternoon had boxing matches; wanted to get liberty so he boxed; got liberty to go home and see his mother; in the Navy for a year; also played some baseball; big names also at Great Lakes included George Halas; after Navy went to work (00:03:10 to 00:06:14) Track 3 - On beginning baseball career, went to Wichita in the Western League in 1923; joined International League playing for Rochester for three years; three years with Newark; one year in Toledo with Casey Stengel; in Rochester worked with brilliant man George T. Stallings, the miracle man of baseball, took last place Boston Braves in 1914 and won a pennant, beating Connie Mack in four straight; Stalling would say he played 90% perfection; would send you to the Minors if you tried to steal with no outs; Stalling wanted thinking players; also played for Tris Speaker, Walter Johnson in Newark, Jimmy Dykes White Sox 1934-35, his last two years; started umpiring because the umpire passed out after 12 innings in 116-degree heat in St. Louis, Red Ormsby and Harry (?) were the two umpires; Roger Hornsby came to the bench and asked for an umpire and Conlan volunteered; started umpiring in New York-Penn League for two years, American Association for three years, then came up to Major Leagues; people should get experience before going to the Majors; Larry Bowa managing the 1986 Las Vegas Stars and winning a pennant; Maury Wills, Frank Robinson, Larry Doby all had a chance to manage (00:06:14 to 00:12:56) Track 4 - Conlan came up to National League in 1941; worked six World Series, six All-Star Games and the only four playoff games in history of baseball; worked 25 years and 16 classics; inducted into the Hall of Fame in 1974 with Whitey Ford, Mickey Mantle, Cool Papa Bell and Jim Bottomley (now deceased) (00:12:56 to 00:13:50) Track 5 - On three-umpire system; Conlan started with (Beans) Reardon and Larry Goetz; trained with greatest umpire of them all Bill Klem; Klem wrote Conlan a letter that he could have umpired single-handedly in the old days; sometimes had to use two umpires; on umpires making mistakes; during 1943 World Series when (Kenesaw) Landis was Commissioner, Conlan was scheduled to umpire in the outfield, Joe McCarthy started the outfield umpire because a fan interfered with the ball, Landis said four men on the field was enough; Conlan's first year in National League, he chased 28 men out of the game and Landis called him in and said people have complained, Conlan said he knew all the cuss words and used none of them, but the players did, so he threw them out, Landis said not to change; word got around not to curse at him; worst two were (Leo) Durocher and Jackie Robinson; Robinson had the filthiest mouth he ever heard; Conlan also worked with Ford Frick and Warren Giles, they really backed the umpires, sent a bulletin to all clubhouses about not cursing, Gil Hodges told him about it; a 1951 letter from Ford Frick to Conlan about the greatest umpiring he'd seen regarding intentional bean balls; Brett Butler with Cleveland was suspended, Bobby Brown gave out the sentence, Conlan wondered if umpire had warned the pitcher; would have forestalled the riot; Texas Rangers manager (Doug) Rader threw strap from base at the umpire, threw bats and helmets out on the field, Brown said he would make a decision in two weeks (00:13:50 to 00:25:01) Track 6 - On respect for authority, respect for umpire; the umpire has the game in his hands, no suspicion of wrong-doing; Conlan never heard what fans were yelling; Conlan heard commentator Edwin Newman talk about people razzing umpires; started with the Rounders in England and umpire fined a player six pence, discussion of how much six pence represented (00:25:01 to 00:28:51) Track 7 - On living conditions for umpires being hard, carrying heavy bags on trains; being first umpire to fly to a game from Pittsburgh to Cincinnati (tape runs out) (00:28:51 to 00:30:33) Side Two -- Track 1 - More on being first umpire to fly on a private plane from Pittsburgh to Cincinnati, for $75, Bucky Walters and Chuck Klein filling in for him; got to Cincinnati, three men on base and one out, retired the side; Ford Frick sent Walters and Klein checks for $50; on Joe Black (00:00:00 to 00:02:55) Track 2 - On being razzed; someone calling his wife in Chicago and she told them that Conlan never brought the game home; Conlan never carrying a grievance; 1954 World Series, working behind the plate, Giants vs. Indians, Larry Doby hitting and started to yell at Conlan, Doby apologizing; players cursing, tennis player John McEnroe's bad behavior; on officials not backing umpires (00:02:55 to 00:06:30) Track 3 - On seeing a player accidentally hit an umpire, Conlan working the plate, Johnny Allen pitching and Conlan had played with him in the International League, George Barr was umpire at second base and called a balk, Allen ran to question Barr and couldn't stop, the next morning Ford Frick called Conlan to say he didn't like or condone the action and was going to give Allen 60 days, Conlan said he didn't think it was intentional so Frick gave Allen 30 days (00:06:30 to 00:08:54) Track 4 - Interviewer Roberts telling story about Philadelphia Athletics catcher Greek George hitting umpire; Conlan insisting that the umpires need backing (00:08:54 to 00:10:08) Track 5 - On Conlan working World Series and All-Star games on merit; complaining about (Leo) Durocher and (Jackie) Robinson having bad language; traveled with the Dodgers to Japan to umpire with the Japanese and help teach them, all without being paid; today, umpires won't go to Japan unless they get paid; Robinson started telling Conlan how to call a play and Conlan put him out of the game, he went to the bench and Conlan told him to go out of the stands, Robinson had to wait for the team bus, (Roy) Campanella told him to behave himself (00:10:08 to 00:13:53) Track 6 - More on conditions; Conlan asking the league to get a company to carry the umpires' equipment, better than a raise; current umpires getting vacation; staying in hotels and getting $7 a day expenses for room and meals, up to $11 and a little more, most Conlan ever got for expenses was $20; Cincinnati basketball official Harry Nolan got him into a nicer hotel; some umpires had to stay at the YMCA (00:13:53 to 00:18:05) Track 7 - On early salary, being ashamed to admit how much; enjoyed baseball, was married and had two children that he put through school, wasn't easy on an umpire salary; (Warren) Giles tried to help umpires get better salaries (00:18:05 to 00:18:44) Track 8 - On staying home in the off-season; trying to go home in between games during the season; on thinking about being a manager when he retired, learning lessons under (George T.) Stallings, players making mistakes like stealing with no outs, or outfielders throwing home when they shouldn't; Stallings insisting the players think; figuring out what the pitcher is going to throw (00:18:44 to 00:22:10) Track 9 - On changes in baseball, players and umpires having better conditions and better salaries; not understanding why umpires don't get respect from newspapers and fans; Japanese respecting umpires; (Don) Newcombe with the Dodgers in Japan, newspapers calling him Ichiban Jocko; Newcombe teasing him in Cincinnati, manager Fred Hutchinson complaining about Conlan tossing Newcombe out; Conlan and Billy Martin serving as pallbearers for Casey Stengel at Stengel's request; Conland relating an event in 1957 World Series Milwaukee vs. Yankees, Henry Aaron hitting, pitcher threw a ball at Aaron, Conlan warned him not to do it again, Stengel came out to confront Conlan, and Conlan saying Stengel would be out too; Frick and Giles backing the umpires in not letting pitchers throw bean balls; Conlan kicking a player (Ron Fairly?) in the shins after player kicked his foot (tape runs out) (00:22:10 to 00:30:21) Cassette 2 content includes: Side One -- Track 1 - Conlan done a lot outside the country to boost baseball and instruct umpires; in 1952, ‘54 and ‘56 went to Europe and instructed soldiers in Germany, France, England and Italy; went to 10 countries in central and South America; spent three weeks in Mexico City, never got paid a nickel, just expenses; when he went to Japan for three weeks with the Dodgers, Conlan got hit by a foul tip when Whitlow Wyatt was pitching and got a fractured larynx, Walter O'Malley took him to a top throat specialist; on way to Japan played in Hawaii and O'Malley sat next to him and asked what Conlan wanted to drink, and he said beer and told a joke about Never give an Irishman whiskey or Jew matches—one wants to start a fight and the other a successful fire, that everyone got a kick out of, O'Malley said he liked Conlan, and said he talked to the Japanese newspapers about umpires getting paid and O'Malley gave him a check for $4000 for three weeks; son Peter O'Malley same as father, good-hearted; Dodgers having the nicest and cleanest ball park (00:00:00 to 00:06:52) Track 2 - On strike zone, using judgment from knees to armpits, each individual is different from the other, Eddie Stanky from Frank Howard; Stanky standing a foot behind the batting box, and Conlan telling him in the big league we stand in the box; good ball players don't even look at the umpire(Stan) Musial and Ted Williams (00:06:52 to 00:09:14) Track 3 - On not liking Robin Roberts, Conlan calling a balk; making a double play the wrong way, Bill Mazeroski in the game, Red Schoendienst missed tagging bag at first and tagged Granny Hamner, but it was backwards, so Conlan called it; Roberts cursed at Conlan and the Philadelphia manager came out, Conlan tossed Roberts out of the game for cursing at him; Conlan saw him afterwards and played with his two sons and told Roberts he had two nice boys (section here where Conlan whispers a story about Roberts) (contains profanity) (00:09:14 to 00:13:52) Track 4 - Wrapping up, discussing breakfast, feeling sorry for inept waitress; on what the Hall of Fame is doing with these interviews (tape runs out) (00:13:52 to 00:16:43)Public Access NotePlease note that not all works are on view at all times - their availability is subject to change per the discretion of the Museum staff. 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